Missiology: Contemporary Apologetics (Russell Rook and Mark Knight)
Discussion Point #2
Much of Russ Rooks presentation centres upon the place of beauty as an apologetic. In what he calls :-
"The ontology of beauty: Beauty as an argument for the existence of God"In an era sick of 'spin and slick answers' how important is it that we point and demonstrate the Beauty of God as a means of an apologetic? What acts of chuch point to such beauty? What are the dangers and pitfalls of such an approach?
posted by ETLnetwork at 6:34 AM
10 Comments:
Sorry, Gordon didn’t fully understand your questions. Do you mean us seeing beauty and goodness in everyone through God’s eyes and love - especially as man is created in His image?
THere is certainly a beauty in that - which would take it beyond the ascetics of beauty.
Discussion 2 Contemporary apologetics
On Maundy Thursday I attended a service at RAF Uxbridge in their base Church . The service was led by Nick the base Padre . Nick's service was extremely high church . Near the end of the service Nick completed a ceremony in which the alter was stripped of all it's ornaments and Gold. The lights was turned off and Nick removed his brightly coloured robes . The Church would remain like this until Easter Sunday . The symbolism was beautiful . In this ceremony I saw the beauty of God as we prepared for Good Friday . I remember on my Honeymoon walking across a moonlit beach in the USA (This was before I became a practising Christian) I felt the presence of God in a powerful way in the beauty of that location. In our World that can often be perceived as ugly by many beauty can show people the face of God. The face of love and goodness.However, beauty on its own does not have all the answers . Beauty is a means of seeing Grace and it is by Grace that we see real beauty. The crucifixion was beautiful in a different way than we normally understand beauty . God can open our eyes to the full extent of His beauty by being part of lives and communities .
Chris Hall
In an era of slick and spin answers how important is it that we point and demonstrate the Beauty of God as a means of an apologetic?
It think it has a place because using the Beauty of God as an apologetic is another way of understanding the world , helping to us give an explanation for existence. I think because we are made in the image of God within humanity there is a response to beauty, it is part of our design. Instinctively we know that with beauty there is something bigger, something beyond us. I think that is why we struggle with evil and suffering because we know it is not meant to be like that.
What acts of church point to such beauty?
Our acts of worship. Our ministries and church life, Christians can reveal God’s beauty. Holiness, both in our corporate and individual lives, has a beauty. It is a testimony to our God’s beauty. I think such living attracts and has a potent force in our world that we shouldn’t underestimate.
What are the dangers and pitfalls of such an approach?
The diverse ways our culture understands beauty, it means different things to different people. Also, I’m not sure that our culture spends a lot of time thinking about beauty.
As Russell Rook commented it is a difficult subject for the church in the West and not one often thought about with regard to mission. If we have not thought it through then how can we expect to discuss/explain it with non-Christians?
I think many today would not equate beauty or love with religion given the acts of terrorism that occur in the name of religion and given the evil that exists in today’s world.
I also think some people could have as difficult a time with this as they do with God as a God of love.
Some of the New Age type spirituality goes along this route. Yvonne
God can open our eyes to the full extent of His beauty by being part of lives and communities .
I like that....
I also like the connects of our authentic actions to that of beauty
Contemporary Apologetics
A reference was made to God being responsible for sin.
Because God gives us free will we have a choice between sin or forgiveness through the cross.
My thought is surely our Job is to connect with people, so they can come to an understanding of God's love and forgiveness so people can make that choice.
God gives people a way out so he can't be responsible.
In the lecture on beauty reference was made why does God allow bad things to happen. I have just returned from visiting a mother who's 35 year old daughter has died today.
There has been many times in the last three years in a difficult appointment where I have questioned why does God allow bad things to happen.
Many times I have felt inadequate to give comfort to people in distress. Reference was made that some things are impossible for God. I have come to some understanding of this but still working through it.
In the Alpha course I have just led in the healing discussion a lady in a wheelchair said I don't pray to God to make me walk. I prayer that he will help me cope with life with the difficulties I face.
As was said. Hate is impossible for God. Love is possible and our mission is to take God's love to a hurting world.
Peter Clark
Having watched the film 'American Bauty' I loved the director Sam Mendes summary of the theme: "Beauty is found in places you least expect it, and sometimes in death".
I used an illustration in a sermon last Sunday from Lord Kenneth Clark made his choice. Internationally known for his television series Civilization - lived and died without faith in Jesus Christ. He admitted in his autobiography that while visiting a beautiful church he had what he believed to be an overwhelming religious experience. "My whole being," Clark wrote, "was irradiated by a kind of heavenly joy far more intense than anything I had known before." But the "gloom of grace," as he described it, it created a problem. If he allowed himself to be influenced by it, he knew he would have to change, his family might think he had lost his mind, and maybe that intense joy would prove to be an illusion. So he concluded, "I was too deeply embedded in the world to change course".
Clarke may have recognised something that was ascetically pleasing to most people but it still demanded a choice, to accept or reject God.
Whereas, in 'American Beauty, even in the ugliness of such a death the director saw beauty. Could this be through the realisation of relationships which needed to be restored rather than in the reflection of human death?
As Yvonne said 'beauty means different things to different people'. For me when you look at creation - who else could have made it but God? It didn't happen by accident. I think that the best act of beauty within a church is when people help,love and show grace to each other. The fact that people are human means that they will sometimes let down their fellow human and then this beauty can turn into disaster and people looking from the outside in will not want to be a part of that fellowship. As always we need to look to Jesus and see how he dealt with situations. In His strength and His strength only can we succeed.
I think it is, was and will be important for Christians to incarnate the ability of pointing out and demonstrating Gods beauty. I believe this characterises a missional and incarnational church as well. Images, certain moments, certain insights, certain experiences can tell more than a thousand words; trying to explain how good God is according to this or that Bibleverse.... I just discovered that I the most beautiful moments in and around our own church were very fragile. People connecting for the first time with other people, someone praying for the first time, someone discovering something new about him- or herself or God... These are to me beautiful things and I think we could do more as a church to point out beauty. To me, beauty is everything that relates to new life, resurrection, recovering and revival. On a personal level I do see this beauty. And we could un-lock more beauty as a group. If we maintain this approach, we could loose sight on the other two elements: Gods truth and Gods goodness. Could it be that we might forget about the destructing work of evil if we only focus on beauty? Or would it be a tremendous good weapon in the war against evil? Because I suspect that accepting and admiring the beauty of God might be the best medicine against evil...
Beauty as the most effective weapon against evil. I love that concept! (My wife is really smart :))
Half way through the lecture, Russ says that Beauty always surprises us. Beauty is much bigger than we are and that is the reason why it surprises us.
Beauty is one of the aspects of God. It is one of the ways He shows himself, but it is not God, the same with truth and goodness. There needs to be a balance between these characteristics and maybe others still.
Although we have focussed enough upon Gods goodness and truth, beauty has a bit been left alone since the reformation.
TSA in Bussum works together in a weekly meeting at the Catholic church in town. People come there to look at beauty but end up meeting God. I think that is absoluty fantastic and they way it should be.
TSA does not normally meet in high church buildings. We meet anywhere basicallly. The beauty is not in the buildings, it is in the people. In the way to look after each other and after others. The way they laugh and cry together. And especially in the way that they work together in God's mission in their own small but very significant way.
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