Ecclesiology: The Emerging Church (Andrew Grinnel)
Discussion Point# 2
"For us the Incarnation is an absolutely fundamental doctrine, not just as an irreducible part of the Christian confession, but also as a theological prism through which we view our entire missional task in the world. So when we talk of incarnational mission, we hope to, in some real way, directly draw inspiration and motivation from that unique act whereby God entered into our world and into the human condition in the person of Jesus Christ". Hirsch and Frost
Andrew points out that it is interesting: that the quote's motivational starting point is neither mission or church but a ‘desire to follow Christ’.
What are the implications on church as it tries to engage with an emerging culture?
posted by ETLnetwork at 7:38 AM
9 Comments:
We need to understand the spirit of the age in order to minister effectively and reach it.
God is not fazed by postmodernity, he has seen many cultural changes, and he expects us to engage and will be with us to help us. We need to listen to what God is saying, see what he is doing and go with him since he is already at work in our culture.
In order to reach this generation it may mean change for the institution of the church as it stands otherwise we will be seen as irrelevant and be left behind as the pace of cultural change accelerates. It may mean getting out of our church comfort zones and moving to new and creative ways of engaging, God has not stopped being creative nor as his people should we. We need to think differently, outside the box. A one sized church cannot fit all.
Nor do new ways imply we compromise or change our message it just means we present it in ways that can be heard and understood within the context of today’s world. Engaging does not mean accepting our culture uncritically. In engaging we do so as Kingdom people, and exercise wisdom and discernment. There will always be a tension , however, this is not something new for God’s people.
We may need to let go of some of our denominational traditions and baggage, although not necessarily at the expense of our Christian inheritance and everything that has gone before. yvonne
You hint at the importance of cultural engagement but within the structures of what is orthodox. People talk about radical orthodoxy, ancient modern - it is a healthy relationship.
Emerging Church Discussion 2
I really agree with Yvonne -God is quite used to cultural change and if we think about it God manages many different types of cultures all at the same time . God really is at work in our communities . I believe God will still honour what is of Him . I have seen many different expressions of Army from Neo ,Wetherby corps to traditional corps such as William Booth Memorial Hall in Nottingham where I had a placement . All of these Churches are growing and attracting young people . They are working . I believe we can oversimplify the issue by saying we need to get rid of all our previous baggage and move on into our post-modern world in a completely new way . We need to ask the fundamental question in our Church. Is what we are doing working? Is it Christ Centred and is it already being honoured by God. I understand the concept of post-modernism but I believe it is in danger of being overused . We need to reach out in a way that works , with Grace.
Chris Hall
As I look at my large array of books on 'how to evangelize’ I can honestly say that regardless of how many I have read, they have made little impact in comparison to the last year while being convicted to study, the Great commission and the Early Church, but moreover, it is because of the impact of Jesus in my life.
Andrew's lecture actually put everything in place for me -neither mission nor church is a motivational starting point as without firstly knowing Christ and the 'unique act whereby God entered our world and into the human condition in the person of Jesus Christ' any other motivation would be worthless (if not useless). The 'emerging church' lectures have left me in no doubt of the importance of firstly encountering Christology, that is knowing who Christ is. I also recognise that TSA is rooted in the doctrine of the Incarnational theology.
Having a relationship with Christ stimulates an ongoing desire to follow Him and live by Kingdom values which then produces a passion for mission, i.e. engaging in our culture and society because of that personal experience of Christ. Ultimately this will be the forming/building of the Church.
Andrew gave a sharp reminder that there is 'no neutral ground for the Church' we cannot be both 'fully in the culture and fully in the Kingdom'. I paused for some moments to reflect on the occasions I try to engage with the culture and had to ask myself if it is at the expense of the Kingdom . . . I could begin to identify with Andrew as he said, 'While we must be fully in the Kingdom we can still engage with the culture' and this is what I see in the Early Church.
I think there can be dangers for the church that we may be lured into doing anything that may be perceived as 'tendy' because of this age! There are many implications for the emerging church as it tries to engage with an emerging culture but perhaps if we were to focus on theology which relates to the culture in which we live it will says Andrew 'be the answers to the churches problems'.
Again I agree with many of the comments already made and really can only reiterate some of those points: It is essential to ensure that the church moves with the times and it is necessary to listen to what God is saying and see how He is directing us.The Army and its soldiership is working in many places. Every week in the Salvationist we see soldiers being made - young and not so young. Therefore does this not show that soldiership is working? On the other hand we must be aware that different expressions of Army work in different areas and if this works for a particular corps/centre then we should embrace it. I would say we must move with the times without compromising our beliefs but being willing tothink 'outside the box'and do what works in a particular place.
We spend too much time wondering whether we are culturally relevant. When I see a Nun or a Monk I don't say to myself, aren't they old fashioned it's about time they came into the real world; I see what they stand for and what they believe in and that speaks volumes to me. After all weren't we all taught that it's not what we look like that counts, it's what we're like that matters.
We see people searching all over the place for answers and many of the new age groups have many converts. I know I keep harping on about this but when people see that we believe in what we say we believe in and live our lives accordingly, they will willingly buy into what it is that we have on offer; regardless of whether we are cool and trendy. We look at the gift that God has given us and we decide not to open it because the wrapping is so pretty but if only we knew what was inside we would rip the paper off and not care about the wrapping at all.
It doesn't matter how we try and wrap up the gift, the gift will always be the same and it is such a wonderful gift that it doesn't need changing or exchanging because we aren't happy with it. If we just bothered to open the gift up we would never want for any other gift!
Haven't we heard lots of times that Jesus is the same today as yesterday and will be the same tomorrow? If Jesus doesn't see the need to change the story why should we try. Once people have a real tangible experience of God the excitement that brings into our lives will flow over into all aspects of our lives and it will be contagious. If we have that real relationship with Christ we will live incarnational lives because Christ will be at the centre of everything that we do.
It has worked for thousands of years why are we trying to change it now?
If
Sorry I don't know why it didn't print my name but it was me that posted the last posting and I don't know why the 'if' is there...sorry! :-)
Tracey
To follow Christ, or to incarnate the saving, healing presence of Jesus in our lives, in an emerging culture sounds very simple to me: just do what Jesus would do. Sandals may become shoes, ropes may become jeans, but his character, his acting in this world would still be the same.
As a church, we have more difficulties with engaging with an emerging culture, because we built fortresses of rules, regulations and hierarchies that became more holy than The Holy One. Strange. The greatest impact on church would be a change of thinking (from attractional to incarnational) and the focus: Christ-centred, but deeply interested in our cultural context we live in. It then would have an impact on our purpose and mission: what are we here for? What is our mission in the world? And then it would influence our acting: engaging in an emerging culture is moving alongside, changing in order to reveal the healing and loving presence of Christ in our midst.
It all sounds like hard work: being true to Jesus and changing in order to engage in the cultural context. On the other hand: it is an organic logic to grow and change, so if we just follow that natural rule, there shouldn't be a problem. For church -in general- the biggest problem to be flexible is the institutionalisation. Turning this into a more flexible movement would be necessary to fully engage in our culture.
I just would like to try and pick up where Mariska has left the discussion: From institution (back) to movement. It sounds very clear and easy, but is it?
Our rules and regulations were never made to make the life of a Salvationist miserable. They were made for smoother sailing, to better the effectiveness of the movement so to speak.
The problem arises when the circumstances change and the effectiveness of the rules are diminishing. Are we willing to let go of or regulations in favour of God's mission?
That is the sometimes painful question we need to ask ourselves when we want to engage with an emerging culture.
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